"Hi Everyone,

I own a marketing company and my partner is a marketing (brand communications) manager, and has been for ten years. We have both worked for large reputable companies and delivering customized quality!

On this note we have seen a lot of 'abuse' and flogging of staff! We run our business from a stand point of staff motivation and harmony - believe me there is a balance and I can let you talk to my chief designer if you want evidence of that (some times I give him jobs that he does in two hours which we can pay him $600 for and sometimes it is far less)...

The common thread amongst what is being said in this forum (albeit from perspective) is that feel that you are under paid and feel unhappy with what going on in some areas of your industry. Well from a person that employs graphic designers and pays them well (my designers really do like working for me because not only do I appreciate what they do, but they have an understanding of what we're up against as business owners).

I'm sure you are aware (probably implicitly) that customers and their work don't just fall off trees or knock on doors... Nor are the relationships longstanding without a lot of effort on the business owners part (something designers do not see a lot of)!

We outlay thousands of dollars every month on advertising, we work seven days a week, sometimes until midnight, not to mention setting up websites, yellow pages ads and PR campaigns just to get leads, in the hope of closing deals and getting quality customers. Then there are administration costs of running a business as well as the credit control and cash flow side of the equation.

In a nutshell this is what we do for our designers and in return they wholesale their work out to us:

We get the work
We deal with the customer
We give you quality briefs and realistic time frames
We come to you with specific changes
We offer input for design and creativity to help your create flow
We offer direct and clear changes so that minimum changes happen which makes our designers life easier
We pay very good rates for quality work
We pay our invoices promptly
We can provide a constant flow of work

If someone backs them self and has true confidence to deliver and high self worth, and is being under paid and/or under valued. Then if you want a chance to play with the big boys and be treated fairly and work in a win win relationship then contact me at info@crystalballmarketing.com.au."

"I have recently been employed by a large organisation (possibly largest in Australia) as a Graphic Designer (first design job). My boss and all others I work with have little idea what I do or am capable of. I do have alot of freedom, however find 50% of my time is spent doing excessive administration which usually relates to computer equipment not functioning propperly. Can anyone tell me whether they suffer from the same ratio of design vs. admin? What is the normal amount of admin a designer should do when employed by an organisation and not freelancing?"

"im so stuck.... i have just accepted a job as a graphic artist/commercial editor for $35.5K yr in QLD. Haven't graduated from my degree yet. Is this amount fair>? Because they are also going to train me in video editing too for TV commercial design."

"Well, well, well... I have just read all the responses and yeah I agree with the fact that we as Graphic Artists/Designers do NOT GET PAID ENOUGH!!!!!

I have been working for my company for over a year and no pay increase, i set up an oppointment with the boss and asked for one and he said that the other graphic designer that i work under but im way better and do 'most of the work' (his words) doesn't think im rerady for one yet! WHAT!!! And I do a lot more than I did when i started and i am a lot faster too...

I agree that we need to be payed more.. i work soo hard and don't get the reward at all.. I get 32K a yr and my friends in sales get more than me too, and our admin chick and PA get more than me! And im qualified and worked hard and they didn't do anything to get their jobs!!!!

Just sick of it and I love what i do, don't get me wrong, but there needs to be a change in the pay! Does everyone agree??"

"I'm a inhouse graphic designer for a fashion house in melbourne (very well known and successful fashion house). I work accross several brands and mainly do garment graphics, catalogues, pos material, and set up ad work. I'm mac monkey i'd say 70% of the time but the rest is all fun and games and i love it! I'm a junior whos straight out of uni. What sort of wage should I be getting? because I'm sure what I'm on is almost illegal!"

"I've been studying design on and off for about 8 years - have done heaps of freelance work and I was a junior graphic designer for about 18months. i couldn't see myself getting any further with it so I went and did a degree in visual communications design. BEST THING I could ever have done. Out of Uni on my first job I'm on 45K (super inc) and I work for a mortgage lender. Yes very corporate and a little boring. I'd love to get into studio work or agency work, but I have a feeling I'll need to take a pay cut. All and all I agree our work is easy - and we're taken for granted sometimes as our bosses and clients haven't a clue how to do what we do. Soon I beleive that we (graphic desigers) will be in for a very nice surprise, our salary average will go up by 10K I reckon. But until then - get your education, get your experience and never sell yourself short."

"The institutes keep pumping out way more graduates than the the industry can realistically support. It dilutes the industry and from what I have heard they don't really test if people have the aesthetic abilities/aptitude for this field before getting in. Is it true? When I studied in the earlly 90's it was a rigorous testing process that really narrowed the field down from 500 applicants to 40 places."

""peter m marksman" put it well, man I was so naive when I started my first job I accepted $28k as I thought what I was doing was not really worth more due to it being so easy and fun. I replaced a guy on $50k I found out later.

I then put 2 and 2 together and worked out how much my bosses where making off my work, in excess of 120 grand a year and then some. All the while I was being pushed to work harder and longer so they could "get their moneys worth" and basic being bullied into working like a machine.

Eventually I grow up and stood up for myself and told him where to go. I waited for 6 months till Christmas, to see if they would give me a raise (the whole year and half I was there, I got a $3 grand increase) Christmas came round, no bonus, no wage increase. I get paid half of what the system admin does and do 3 times the amount of work (web pages, internal and external graphic design, everything that needs to be made I do it, even sales occasionally).

Moral of the story, we all have to learn the hard way some times, it was a good eye opener and I grow allot as a person. I learnt to stand up for yourself, value your work and time, don't sell yourself short, don't give up and don't take crap from anyone, also theres more to life then work and why its important not to be dependent on your job for everything.

I'm now looking for a new job which I know is going to take a while, thats why I'm updating my skills when I get some quiet time and I'm starting a teaching course at uni at night. Its going to be worth it when I take my 4 weeks holiday and hand in my letter of leave 2 weeks in. Employers need to learn the hard way how much work creatives really do, we should form a guild like the American screen writers, worked for them.

You don't look after me, I don't look after you."

"Wow i didnt know there could be so little money involved in Graphic Design. Im in year 11 at school but i guess if i really love my job money doesnt matter. But Graphic designers should be paid more they deserve it!"

"My uni degree at UNSW required an entry UAI of over 90. I thought there'd be more money at the end of a four year design degree for people with that kind of mark, but alas, now 4 years into my career I've only just hit the 50k mark. We're talking law degree territory here with a course that long and a mark that high... i should have just gone to tafe, no one has ever asked to see my degree and barely anyone on the magazine publishing industry which i work in has a uni degree."

"What approx salary would you suggest a person receive for general printing/sales but with graphic design elements. I am worried my work is going to only provide me of a salary for a sales assistant, yet require me to also design for their clients. I think i will only be offered 28,000 a year which is normal for sales."

"I would have to disagree with hairdresser earning more money than a designer does. The base rate for a hairdressers is about $17 before tax that is why I became a designer. I am happy being on $56K a year there is no way I would have got this as a hairdresser."

"You're only as good as your ideas. I've been a CD for a few years and almost everyone that comes in and says they're a designer are in fact mac monkeys. And it's harder to find a good hairdresser than a mac monkey. So if you think you're not being paid enough ask yourself if your portfolio is full of original pieces. Stuff others haven't thouight of."

"I need a graphic design job but until now i still cannot get a simple job in melbourne, victoria,australia. Is it hard to offer a job for me as foreigner in 2 years industry experiences."

"I'm still a Design Student at Enmore TAFE (part time) but due to my years of admin experience (I'm 29) I'm able to get jobs that are mainly admin but with some design elements. At the moment I've got lucky with a position at Sydney University doing web content management, administration, project management and graphic design and I'm on $63K. My plan is to build up my portfolio doing jobs like this and freelancing so I don't have to start on some horrendous salary. But, looking at the top figure for a Graphic Designer ($52K) I think I may give up on that idea and just plan to win the lottery!"

"I get $80,000 a year and have been working in Graphic Designing for 11 years."

"Graphic designers are, indeed, ripped off bigtime.

Why? Because our jobs are so much fun and so easy that we'd do them for free - it's almost embarassing to accept any money at all!"

"I think the amount of money you get paid depends on who you work for and what type of work you do. It is very important not to undersell your self but sometimes designers do mix that and start over selling themselves. I think there are 2 possible reasons of not getting paid right. First of all, you may be over qualified for the position or the company and you expect to get paid more; means you have to start looking for a better position or a company. Second, to know your capabilities; meaning you could have done 1 or 2 very successful projects but don't let that define the amount of money that you would like to be paid unless you are consistently successful. There is always the chance of failing on the next project (that's if you are thinking that you are too good for any project). If you look at it from employers point of view that will not be viable for the business to pay you top dollar from day one. In fact, if you do prove your self with in the "right company" I am sure you will get paid more than the office assistant."

"i have worked as graphic designer for 8 years in india, but after comming to south australia i feel that its better to become a plumber and get more money"

"I totally agree - Designers get paid peanuts for the amount of hard work and long hours we do! Something needs to happen."

"I work as a graphic designer in the arts industry in NSW and the office assistant get more than I do! he get 10K more than I do! guess that's how the government jobs? or designers just get paid badly?"

"not much money for Graphic designer. We need to have a base struture wages like Architecture. If not a hairdresser can be earning more than us!"