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I would like to bring your attention to a new technique small start-up studios are using with more established ones - I have received about 4 emails from anonymous hotmail accounts asking for quotes, 2 of which have just asked for my terms and conditions. These requests are obviously bogus - the briefs are vague, first names only without any contact numbers or business names.

I have e-mailed them back asking for further information, a chance to meet and get no response. I toyed with one request where I sent a blank Word document, they responded by saying there was nothing in it, I did the same again, same result and then suggested I fax it and got no reply.

To top it off, I was told by a design colleague that a friend of his was gloating about using this technique so he could get a sample of how other design studios prepare their quotes and to establish their terms and conditions.

I'm certainly not against helping young studios start up with giving them advice and samples, but when it is done like this I have no respect for them.

I am not sure if this is happening to other studios. I am bringing it to your attention so that you do not fall into the trap of spending numerous hours compiling a quote just so that parasites like these can get what we have worked hard to establish for free.

"to (), an interesting response, I presume that you have not been subjected to this scenario? please help me out - I would like you to give me a proposal for a 100pp book, 100,000 copies, I will need 3 print quotes, 3 x full page illustrations, photography and copywriting - how long do you think this would take to put together?

The issue here is not about designers wanting to increase their business knowledge, it's about the disrespect of fellow designers."

"This IS an old, established strategy, and while it can be affronting to the subjected studio, we can't justify an indignant attitude to the practice. It's easy to assume that the individuals or firms carrying out this practice are nothing but "parasites", but there is very little choice.

While the AGDA website claims that:

"...there is no need to be sneaky about gathering this info! Newcomers can join AGDA, use the many resources we provide, including this site, and use their membership to meet and discuss these matters with more experienced colleagues."

..Well, let's bear in mind that there are so many variable factors in this industry, and the value of each artist's work is dependent on a variety of factors that may or may not be relevant to another artist.

This is especially so in areas outside of metropolitan areas, where the value of design in the mind of the client (mainly small printing firms and one-off clients) is based on differing factors and local economies, and cannot be based on the advice of metropolitan-based firms or colleagues.

In any case, speaking from the point of view of someone based in non-metropolitan Qld - and who has little time to attend conferences, let alone get to a metropolitan area to do so - the suggested "meeting" of like minds simply doesn't happen.

Furthermore, the limited demand for high-quality design in non-metropolitan areas, makes each design firm naturally paranoid and defensive. It is pure fantasy to assume that a young designer need only meet with local colleagues to gain legitimate advice on how to charge. The advice offered is going to be dubious at best!

Aside from all of this, where exactly can an AGDA member get hold of such information through this website? The subject is certainly touched upon, but where are the solid facts and figures?

This is a rhetorical question, of course; there can't be any solid facts and figures, for the reasons outlined above.

So, what's left to do? What the competitive industries have always done: Be sneaky.

Let's not be offended, and let's not presume to condemn the perpetrators. Most likely, you will at some point be working for a firm that adopts this practice as a legitimate research tool. Plenty of well-established firms do it. Would you resign your position in protest?"

"Its still going on...

We have set up a standard 'more info please' letter that gets sent off when ever we get one of these requests - it saves time.

Funny.... rarely do we recieve a response."

"'Totally agree' - at this moment I am trying to get my own business of the ground and although during all my time studying I have not been shown how to set up good business practices or how to quote for a job - I would never think of carrying the above mentioned practice. I have created my own method by searching the net for any information I can find about designing and costing. It has taken me just over 12 months and I have finally worked out and set up a costing, quoting and invoicing system that seems to work but at the same time I have left room for improvements if need be. As far as approaching other firms for help I unfortunately have not had much luck with this as they seem to just brush you off as you are an unknown.

Cookie"

"Dear Sean:
It is petty some people are willing to go to that extent, but I dissagree with your generalisation of anybody using a hotmail account is bogus. I do use a hotmail account myself, not because I am cheap, but because I lack the resorces to have a business provider, as time allows there will be a web site set up, a proper email account, fax machines and much more. I am not one to go and cheat ideas from others, luckily I have the support of a much wiser mentor and that is where I get my ideas from. I do not understand why anyone would want to become a designer of any sort and then not use their own creativity to come up with a great business concept, but that does not only apply to the "small bloke" that is a fact on everyday business activity even big corporations are encouraged to peep into their neighbor's garden....."

"This is hardly a "New Technique"....competition analysis, research or similiar such "Mystery Shopping" is common place in most industries... It's called business intelligence gathering. While I agree a certain amount of prospect pre-qualification is a prudent strategy to weed out tyre kickers and time wasters, I think the term "Sneaky", as used by the editor responding to Nathan's response, could as easily be replaced with "Entrepreneurial".

This does not extend however to stealing and plagiarism. Should the intellectual property of the firm be utilised on an "as is" basis by the offending firm, and represented as their own, then the line has been crossed. It has been my experience that firms operating in this manner lack the resources, creativity or talent to exist for any length of time. However should this information be used to create benchmarks and industry standards by which firm

bases (not regurgitates) their own operating procedures, costings etc. I believe it is a valid research method. It is "Naive" to think that just because the industry is a creative one that common place business methods will not be utilised.

Do not worry about what others may take from you, concentrate on what you put out there and the rest should take care of itself."

"To whom it may concern,

Although I agree that this method of acquiring information is hardly professional to the "seemingly" open culture of the graphic arts community, it does however reveal a significant problem worth discussing. Little information on pricing and costs, not to mention terms and conditions are rarely addressed in art schools and learning institutions, leaving students with little or no knowledge of these practices upon entering the indutry.

Many new players also find the idea (and actuality) of walking into an established design house for help intimidating and frustrating when their presence may be viewed negatively. They are often seen as purely a competitor rather than a welcome member to the industry. Therefore, even though I agree whole heartedly that the idea of gleaning information underhandedly out of established businesses is wrong, there is obviously a need to inform or establish some standard to help newcomers to the industry."

"Sean,

I've had about half a dozen similar requests. I too have found that simply by asking for their name, company name, address, telephone and facsimile numbers for my records seems to elicit no response and therefore no further waste of my time.

Cameron"

"This I can heartly agree with.

Originaly comming from Adelaide, i am an international designer working for a multi-national American company in Beijing China. The design industry here is frought with just such instances and on a somewhat grander scale than what you face in Australia. There is such incompetence, even when it comes to outsourcing local and some of the larger entities which are using similar tacktics to stay on top and one step ahead. What is frustrating is that i have done business all over China Including Honk Kong and it is the same [differing in degree's of application] all over....

Things in Australia aren't as bad as they are over sea's. Here they use such idea's as design tactics, amongst others, to utilise other expertise and other design mentalities.

Rest easy....

Best regards Sean"

"Thank you for taking the time to inform other colleges about this trick, it is tough enough out there at the moment with out wasting precious time on some thing like that. Time is money so I thank you again for saving what could have been lost time ( money )

Lucy"