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To give you the gist of what we talked about I put forward this actual scenario:

A small real estate company comes to my graphic design studio, he has a new housing estate coming to the market. It's only small -- around 50 blocks targeted towards the first homebuyer/builder market. The real estate agent has said the budget is modest and has given me examples of competitors brochures which he wants to match in quality.

For now the agent has asked me to produce

1. A logo for the estate, and

2. A 4page A4 glossy full colour sales brochure print run of 3000 units.

I submit my quote for design, production and printing -- a fair price that meet his needs.

The estate agent also gets a price from a print company, they match the price for printing the 3000 brochures and "throw in" the design and artwork for NO EXTRA COST.

This attitude by many print and sign companies is killing small studios like myself and at the same time perplexing me -- why not charge for the production component. A local printer I use regularly have admitted to me that they run their 4 person design and production studio at a loss and that apparently is quite normal practice.

Another good friend of mine, the production and creative manager for a long established label printing company, was horrified to learn when he started work there -- that design and production was never charged for -- even though they ran a fully equipped, 3 person design and production studio. He has only recently convinced the management to start charging for this service after showing that in just 1 month the production studio racked up in excess of $30,000 in chargeable time and expenses.

I am not against sign makers and print firms having design and production studios, what I want them to do is charge for the graphic design service they provide, at least I can then quote on jobs on a relatively level playing field.

Having AGDA and others around to sell the virtues of graphic design to the wider community is commendable, unfortunately I feel a great deal of the ignorance and apathy towards the value of graphic design comes within the industry.

But even if we ignore the value of good design and just look at pure bottomline -- it just doesn't add up. Take the scenario I put forward earlier -- I saw the finished job the printer did for the real estate agent and must I admit it was a good job, they usually are. It met the clients needs, it looked good, nice pics and type, reasonable logo -- a lot of TIME was spent producing it. (Professional pride says I would have done it differently but not necessarily any better).

Which comes to the point of the price they quoted. I knew what they were starting with, I knew what was involved it creating the final product, I have done similar jobs before -- so how could this printer provide the whole package for what I could get it printed for. The economies of scale bullshit just doesn't stack-up -- who took the on-site photographs, who paid for the stock pics, who illustrated the lot plan, who wrote the copy??? etc etc. If I was to get someone to do all that, it would come to 3 times the cost of printing the job.

Don't tell me I need to get competitive, my service -- your service is being passed over as fluff by those in the know.

I have friends who work in the legal industry, finance industry, architecture -- and they all can't believe what goes on in our field. How can we expect to be taken as professionals when so much of what we do is given away?

I think I have waffled enough for now, I look forward to any comments

Sean Elsegood
SED

Andrew's 2 cents:

Good article AND questions! An interesting one is, I think, "how could this printer provide the whole package for what I could get it printed for?"

There are three elements to the answer:

1. The question should really read "why would...?" rather than "how could...?"

2. When the question is rephrased that way, the economic imperative of a big (relatively speaking) fixed cost base becomes more obvious

3. The problem for a printer is that if a designer is involved, there is a real risk that the work will go to some OTHER printer

What I mean by point 2 is that printers have fixed costs that don't change regardless of whether they are working or not. Designers have these types of costs too, eg. rent and computer leases, but the printer has even more rent, plus the print machine leasing costs and printer salaries as well. Since the printer has a higher fixed cost base, they have a strong incentive to get enough money in JUST to cover those costs, because if they don't, they will be significantly out of pocket.

Combine that imperative with point 3, and the printer's rationale becomes:

I need a minimum amount of money just to cover my fixed costs

Hey, this project (from the client) could cover my costs, and generate a good profit

But if the project goes to the designer, I will have to compete with other printers for the print work and I may not get it at all!

Therefore, I could consider reducing my profit to nearly zero (by "giving away" the design), because my alternative (no project, same big fixed costs) means I go backwards in a big way!

Sure, there are a whole bunch of other factors that affect the difference between studio costs and printer costs, like the probability that the designers who work for printers get paid less than the ones that work in "proper" studios, etc. but the bottom line is that the economics of a studio and printer are fundamentally different, and therefore they make pricing decisions quite differently.

Ouch, but true.

""The estate agent also gets a price from a print company, they match the price for printing the 3000 brochures and "throw in" the design and artwork for NO EXTRA COST.

This attitude by many print and sign companies is killing small studios like myself and at the same time perplexing me"

Dont Worry they will get what they paid for!"

"Yeah, yeah, yeah, we've been whinging about Printing companies for years; Given the amount of print work a design company does why don't we have inhouse printing suites? It's a possiblity, then again we can all boycott any printing house that practices such highway robbery and force there industry to straighten up! After all, we are their big clients!"

[Editor's note: Designers are not necessarily the biggest source of income for printers, as many clients go direct to printers, or have existing printer relationships which the designer has to use]

"The solution, make a prospective offer to the designer working for the printer in respect of the design industry to spend as little time as possible designing the job, although this designer is losing his credibility as a designer, I'm sure it will cut his times down and his head cigar will be stoked considerably at the turnover of work, they may lose clients looking for a more 'catchy work of art', they were going to go anyway.

But if the respect for design is that small with printers that they do not charge for design, then it's a ligitimate question for a potential design industry boost. Tha fact remains that most small businesses are after a bargain, the ones that are after a bargain that works for gaining customers are the ones that will pay for it.

The other solution is that we encourage digital media as the future of the environment, outruling the need for printed promotional material except packaging design and for the actual goods themselves. This may take a long time but, a large contingent of non-slaves will be happy to know that we are not sell outs. I'm all for it. Paper is over-rated and usually a waste, that is a fact unfortunately."

"An interesting and sensitive topic-thats not going away.

I enjoyed reading the varied responses and found MRs nose very good! Does Max have a nose for hire? Having experience helps in all aspects of what we do in design business. However what we do in our design business does shape the $500-$600million (ABS data -1998) design industry.

Are we becoming a commodity? Do all designers have an equal skill and education set, working with the same technology and outputting a similar end result, ink on paper?

Design as a commodity, sold per kilo on the open market at the lowest price set by the buyers.

Why implicate printers into the equation, there are too many scapegoats and cliches (not just paper plates!) as an industry we must take action and provide more than just design service/good/commodity, more than just ideas. We need to place design into the must have category in all aspects and streams of business. This can only be achieved by US improving our relationships with clients, suppliers and of course other designers. Besides, even an experienced nose can get clogged!

cheers
Anthony"

"Yes, it's annoying that printers don't charge for their artwork, they should refer the client to a graphic designer first (who would give the printing back). We refer work to them! What is REALLY irritating is when they say they do graphic design but they're only employing a compositor.

However, maybe it's only this smallish city that I live in, but I have yet to see any decent design work coming out of a printer. In fact i got my biggest client after they'd first been to a printer and got the crappiest brochure i've ever seen, they were desparate to get something better.

It's the same with newspaper ads, especially in smaller papers, 90% of the ads are schlepped up by compositors for free.

However, some businesses don't need or want anything more than something that is just barely adequate. So let them go.

I'm still convinced there are plenty of people out there who recognise that unmistakeable visual credibility that a professional designer gives to their promotional material, and they value what we do.

We're a service industry -- maybe we could tailor the time spent on the job to suit a smaller-time client who can only afford enough time to design something that's good, but won't win any awards.

I've occasionally seen some designers getting far too 'precious' about the design, producing some fabulous work that looks impressive in a portfolio, but spending more time and money on the print production of the job than is warranted, thus failing to meet the client's needs. No wonder some people are intimidated by graphic designers and have a perception that we are a luxury.

I agree with the guy who said that we are not just providing good looking graphics, we are helping the client to communicate the benefits of their product or service. Maybe we need regular seminars and more information on the marketing aspect of graphic design."

"This is one of my favourite topics.

I have a similar and ongoing situation with a client of mine.

His dilemma: He can use my firm and get a product that WORKS, or he can go to Joe's Offset and get a crummy piece of badly branded rubbish, but for less money.

His solution: Tells me my rates are too high and threatens to go to the cheap printer

My Response: Good! See you later.

In reality, even if you are struggling for work, reducing your rate to nothing to get a job won't win you the respect of ANY client. It sets a dangerous precedent in your relationship where the customer will treat you like crap repeatedly. It is instead your job to PERSUADE them that your service is worth paying for! If they don't buy it, you don't want them!

I have lost and let go many clients to shonky printers and "cousins with CorelDraw", and am happy to wave goodbye out my window, because if they can't be taught, they're not worth the effort!"

"Being competitive is not always an issue of cost! If you really want the job, it is not that hard to work out a way to win it!

Remember that our purpose is NOT to provide attractive graphics, it is to COMMUNICATE THE BENEFITS OF OUR CLIENT'S SERVICE OR PRODUCT IN A WAY THAT INSPIRES LOTS OF PURCHASES!

How many printers do you know that can do that?

If your client does not understand this, then this is a CLIENT NOT WORTH FIGHTING HARD FOR! More importantly, if you don't understand this, then you don't deserve the client!

...AND WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING COMPETING WITH PRINTERS ANYWAY?

Please read, and then read again, the comments from Max Robinson below!"

"I am a photographer visiting your site, in our profession we are facing similar dillemas. Photographers from large, well established studios grossly undercutting to procure new clients, other photographers working in design studios and repro houses doing it for peanuts as part of the "total package" and the wanna-be's armed with a digital and minutes of experience

....

As the void closes with smart technology our amazing ideas and talents will be perceived the lesser by Joe public. No easy answers here, with everyone in the media marketing circus trying for the one stop shop, and the animosity existing between us all, its going to take a miracle..... Sorry I'm normally such an optimist!"

"It is all so sad, but on the other note, that client just may not be in business long enough to do another job. Why, cause his design may not have communicated the message properly or visualy captured the audience. This is why clients come to people like us TO DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME AND BEYOND."

"It's all about training your nose.

Just as you can eventually smell a cheque in the mail, you can eventually smell a potential client who won't want to pay. It's really hard at the beginning of your career, and it doesn't get a whole lot easier, but you can do it. I know knocking back work is anathema and I still hate it, but it's got to be done when you feel that prickle at the back of your neck.

Try it, and note how good you feel when the grapevine tells you that you were right. We'll never get rid of the shysters, they've always been there and always will, but design is an intuitive business. Just use that gift and step aside."

"As a new design business I found myself charging far less than I deserved just to get my business up and running...that was until I realized that I would simply go broke if I didn't raise my rates (the cost of computer and software had to be paid for).

I had my real awakening when I got a bill from my lawyer for a few simple contracts he rewrote for me. At $250 per hour I asked myself why lawyers rates remained so high while the rest of us comprimised. Maybe we need to gang together like they do. Ever heard of a cheap lawyer???? I'd love to know where I can find one."

"This is all juicy gossip, and unfortunately not too surprising.

However, the very sad thing is this: clients who purchase 'free design' from printers just don't care! With all respect to every printer, a client who is buying design from a printer is barking up the wrong tree, at least from a 'pure' design viewpoint.

Which gets me to the point of 'we must educate clients'. I am sure you have all heard the saying, 'you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink'.

On a wider scale, 'people' in general seem to be happy to spend the least amount of money possible. Why do you think Hyundai Excel was Australia's highest selling four cylinder? Because it was a quality, class leading product. I don't think so!

Also printers, with sales teams will more than likely sell a lot harder than a designer will, especially small business/self employed designers. Let's not just bag the printers, bag sales staff too!

Viva graphic design...."

"Dear Editor, I am surprised that in a page of text complaining about printers offering design services for free you could suggest that we get a lawyer to work for free!

Could this be a case of double standards?"

"Anyone with access to a mouse can now claim to be a designer..."

"Believe it or not

As a professional in the industry, it is truly amazing to me that some printing companies do not charge or only charge a token fee for what seems to be the key factor in any production process for any print job."

"Education is the key to the issue. How many well educated 'designers' if any are working inside a production department of a PrintHouse? Did they study at a university, have a Diploma, do a short course or learn the family trade?

Professional education commands Respect and Money Money Money."

"Building Respect.

As a designer who employs 3 others in a regional studio, I'm only too aware of printers, signwriters, screenprinters, and desktop publishers prostituting our industry.

We are in the process of educating the local allied industries to the issues of fee for service, intellectual property, copyright, professionalism and respect for each other's industry and services ("horses for courses").

Over the past 11 years I have made a point of reminding them of their responsibilty to their profession and trade. It has been a hard road, and we have rubbed a few the wrong way, but the message is getting through ("In most cases we all have a bite of the cherry"). Thus, we continue to use their services and continue to survive.

Educating clients, printers and suppliers is all about communicating, and that's the business we are in.

So continue to raise the issues and the profile of our industry."

"Wise Words from John Ruskin (1819-1900)

THE LOWEST QUOTE...

"It's unwise to pay too much, but it is worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money--that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot--it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest quote, it is well to add something for the risk you run. And if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better."

A good printer I know uses this. Perhaps it can help you."

"Bravo Helga and Paul! We indeed must stand up for our rights as professionals. We must get the message out there that the work you get for free (from printers etc..) is not the work you get from the Design profession. If clients want quality--they must pay for it.

We are in the business of SELLING ideas--not giving them away. Clients must see good design as an investment. Most artwork (these days) may be virtual and intangible (as are ideas)--but the results it achieves in the bank for our clients are quite real. You don't get that for nothing."

"I agree with Paul -- Charge of the Print Brigade!!

It is time designers stood up for their professional rights in a concerted,and organised way. As well as banning printers who undermine our profession we could share names of 'bad debt' clients so that others in AGDA can avoid them, have AGDA send letters explaining policy to clients who ask us for free design mocks and vow to educate every client that comes our way on the difference between good and bad design.

We're game!!!

---

[Editor's Note: We looked at the possibility of a 'bad debts' client list quite a few years ago, and it appeared to be illegal. I can't recall why - if anyone has a lawyer friend who can look into this again (for free), AGDA and the Australian design community would greatly appreciate it!]"

"Charge of the print brigade!

Yes, we admit it. As a designer for a large wine label printer I have to deal with this issue every day. Printers DO subsidise design by virtue of their overall volume, not just the volume on one job. This gives them vast scope to cut the price of design and outrage the design community. The real problem is that printers know this but are unwilling to change their practices. I am continually arguing the case for AGDA that we should be charging a 'proper' fee. But when it comes to the crunch, the sales department will always slash the design fee to win a job. I think in other print companies the message may be slowly getting across - I think our main opposition is now charging full design fees!

So, what can we do? The only way to make a difference is to get tough. Printers who follow AGDA's code of ethics should be identified and promoted amongst designers. Designers should show their gratitude by sending their work to those printers and by publicly stating that Free-Design-Printers will not be used by AGDA members. It's no good continually telling each other that it's a bad practice. You need to tell the printers. And you need to hit them where it matters - the bottom line. Take your print work away from them and explain to them why. Maybe then they may start changing their ideas! Then we just have to convince advertising agencies!"

"Dear Sean

This is not a good thing, I have just started offering my services as a designer as of January This year, and have had trouble trying to setup a pricing system for myself.

How is it done, where should I start and what should I do, I cant afford to overcharge myself out of an income.

Do you have any suggestions?"

"Just as a point of interest, Business Queensland ran an article not long ago (eg November) about the overcrowding of the print marketplace in Qld - and how many printeries are ultimately going bust.

Between an overserviced print market in Brisbane and free design for a loss, is it any wonder why?

Things that make you go "hmmmm......"

Kristin Copson
Go Dog Go! Design
Fortitude Valley, Brisbane"

"Music to the ears!

This article is music to my ears and takes away the sense of isolation and desparation I experience everyday as a freelance designer in the Blue Mountains! If you think clients can be mean and stingy in Sydney, wait till you try it up here!

Anyway, articles like this are great BUT as one other person mentioned, it is not enough to tell each other about it, we need get some action in the real world. We need to get the dollars for our hard earned work in the bank, not just in our heads.

How to sell to a business suffering in the present economy to see the difference and the worthiness of a well designed piece as opposed to some of the rubbish you see coming out of printers and desktop publishers is indeed a battle (I'm not generalising, there is a lot of good quality work from some people in this industry. I use a very good printer up here myself. But again, they make their money on printing--not artwork). You can educate them and sell them, but, the bottomline is "Oh, sorry, but we just don't have the money... The printer can do it all for me anyway"

I, for one am completely redirecting my marketing efforts. I can't sit around and wait for the general populous to get the message and the money!

I do agree, that much of this difficulty comes from within the industry. Even in the Fine Arts. You'll get retired people or people with spouses who have a good full-time job just pottering around, enjoying being an Artist and selling their works, framed and all, for $50!!!!!!! This kills the credibility of professional artists who have dedicated themselves to the Arts industry full-time and and require sales of their work to live off as well as continuing to paint. Take out commmissions, frames, book work, time, materials and delivery, there's not a lot left.

The same thing is happening in Design as this article brilliantly points out. And, what crushes us all even more, is that the uneducated public (and I don't mean this in a 'snobbish' or 'elitist' way) can't even distinguish and therefore value the difference in quality and professionalism between amatuer and professional work. This goes for both industries.

Another issue is the lack of real support for any of the Visual and Graphic Arts in Australia overall. Perhaps if we kicked a football around or ran around a track that goes nowhere, we might have a better chance of building the respect our industry has and continues to work so hard for!

WHAT CAN WE DO GUYS? LET'S GET OUR HEADS TOGETHER AND WORK FOR THE PROFESSION WE LOVE SO MUCH!

PS. A friend of mine in the Advertising industry says it's just as bad and this is a big firm. Anyway, it's something to think about."

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